Debunking the price myth: Apple vs. Dell
When Apple released the 17" MacBook Pro today, it re-ignited the endless debate on tech sites on the "high price" of this otherwise perfect system. However, Apple's high prices are a thing of the past; today, it is merely a myth (and beaten-to-death discussion point) that Apple overcharges for their machines. Today's discussion left me slightly aggrevated, so I decided to make a case out of it: a price-and-features comparison between Apple's new flagship notebook, the 17" MacBook Pro, and Dell's three close equivalents to it, the Inspiron E1705, the Precision M90 and the Inspiron 9400. Let the battle commence!
As a web professional, I really should be going into things like how Dell's site is much more confusing (and inaccessible) to navigate, how their URI structure is horrible, and how both sites have pretty bad markup. But that's not the issue today, so, these minimal comments aside, I won't discuss them and instead focus on the case.
Introduction: Apples to OrangesDells
Something I must note up front is that this comparison is only as close as it gets, which is to say, pretty close. Still, there simply are some differences that can't be changed despite configuration options on either side; some may matter to you, some may not. These differences will be listed at the end, and you can weigh them carefully if you're still on the fence by then.
Originally, I wanted to compare just one Dell notebook to the MacBook Pro, but after traipsing around the Dell site some more, I found that they offer a lot of systems that are more or less the same (bar outer looks), yet have a completely different place according to Dell. Some of them are suited for the Home user, some for the Small Business and others for Medium and Large Businesses. I failed to discover just what made each notebook more or less suited for their respective (suggested) audiences, so I ended up simply taking three of the top systems that seemed to come closest to the MacBook Pro in default configuration.
My activities on the Dell site taught me one thing for sure: Dell is a lot better at marketing themselves as cheap and affordable. The reality is, however, far from it. Sure, they offer truly cheap desktops and notebooks, but a little looking around makes it perfectly clear that those cheap prices are for entirely stripped-off computers with abysmal hardware; suffice to say, not an option for a serious computer user.
The three notebooks I've used for this comparison all feature top of the line hardware, which was a must given that Apple's MacBook Pro is as top of the line as you can get (or at least, as you can get without going totally nuts and spending well over $6000 for a mere notebook). Yet still, Dell's default configurations are deflated in computing power as much as possible, undoubtedly to make the initial price impression that much lower. I won't be fooled, though: what they shave off I add back in, and I'm writing down how much it's going to cost. Just for that alone, I'm glad that Apple keeps things simple: a few configuration options, nothing too complicated or tiresome.
Now, let's get to the overview, the part you've all been waiting for.
Overview of price and features
As a target set of specifications, I went for the following:
| CPU: | 2.16 GHz Intel Core Duo |
|---|---|
| RAM: | 1 GB DDR2 667 MHz |
| Hard drive: | 100 GB 7200rpm |
| Graphics: | Ati X1600 with 256 MB* |
| CD/DVD drive: | 8X DVD+/-RW Dual Layer |
| Connectivity: | Built-in Wireless and Bluetooth |
* The Dells don't offer the X1600, so I resorted to lesser videocards, maintaining the 256 MB baseline.
For the Dell notebooks I chose Windows XP Professional, rather than the Home or Media Center versions. This for a very simple reason: in a completely neutral, objective analysis, Mac OS X scores a lot better than XP Home, and only XP Pro comes close to being a competitor in overall features and quality. I felt this to be a justifiable option in the configuration of each Dell notebook. If you want to use XP Home, that's fine. As a counter, I'll point out that you can shave $100 off of the MacBook Pro's default price by configuring the 1GB RAM in two separate DIMMs, rather than one.
Configuration URL's: Inspiron E1705, Precision M90, Inspiron 9400, MacBook Pro.
The results were… well, quite stunning:
| Inspiron E1705 | $2,893 |
|---|---|
| Precision M90 | $3,452 |
| Inspiron 9400 | $2,981 |
| MacBook Pro 17" | $2,799 |
At first, I thought I had made some mistakes - maybe I'd accidentally added more than 1GB of RAM - but after doing the entire process twice for each notebook, just to be sure, I realized that I had made no mistakes. All three Dell notebooks are more expensive than the MacBook Pro!
Another myth is that Apple overcharges on their memory prices, but I guess they're not the only one if so. As a quick test, I spec'd each machine with 2GB of RAM instead of the 1GB, and this is the outcome:
| Inspiron E1705 | $3,099 |
|---|---|
| Precision M90 | $3,712 |
| Inspiron 9400 | $3,306 |
| MacBook Pro 17" | $3,099 |
For the E1705 and M90 it decreased the gap in price with the MacBook Pro, but for the Inspiron 9400 the difference actually got bigger.
Conclusion
While on Dell's site it seemed I could only get rebate discounts for the E1705, I've heard people mention that through some other sites one could get rebates of near $450 to as much as $650 on some or all Dell computers. Clearly, there's a gray area here on Dell's price end where you could, theoretically, get enough in rebate to make the Dell notebooks cheaper than Apple's MacBook Pro, keyword being theoretically.
But as was mentioned in the introduction, this isn't an Apples-to-Apples comparison. There are pros and cons to each side that may make a big difference to you in all this, and while the comparison is neutral in the specifications department, it's obvious that you buy a computer for your own personal or professional needs. These lists may help you make a choice.
The Dell notebooks
- Pros
- Higher resolutions (though in some cases, higher resolutions would demand a more expensive configuration option)
- Six USB 2.0 ports
- Longer battery life
- Longer default warranty
- Can theoretically be gotten cheaper than the MacBook Pro
- Cons
- Higher resolution screens come at the cost of color and image quality
- No Firewire at all
- Much larger in size and much heavier in weight
- No design; not sleek, not smart, not elegant
- Perhaps most important: limited to running Windows (and Linux)
The MacBook Pro
- Pros
- Runs all three operating systems: OS X, Windows and Linux
- Cinema Display: better color and image quality
- Firewire 400 and 800
- Built-in iSight camera
- Beautiful, elegant, sleek design
- Comes with iLife Suite of applications
- Ati Radeon X1600, smaller and lighter, backlit keyboard, Mag-safe power connector, Front Row and remote
- Cons
- Lower resolution
- Shorter battery life
- No rebates whatsoever that could make it cheaper (students get a 15% discount, though)
- Three USB 2.0 ports
There was a time when people would decide against buying a Mac because they needed or wanted Windows, or because the PC alternatives were cheaper. However, Apple took care of the first argument with Boot Camp and Intel Macs, and this price comparison shows that Apple is all but expensive. Sure, you can get a cheaper Dell notebook, but that's almost like saying you can get a VHS for dirt cheap when we're talking about DVD players.
The real difference between Apple and Dell is not price: Apple simply offers nothing but top of the line hardware, whereas Dell offers everything, from the old and dingy to the shiny and new. However, there are a lot of benefits that come with the MacBook Pro, not in the least the ability to run OS X and Windows together (either via Boot Camp or through Virtualization software).
In the end, I guess it still comes down to your budget and your willingness to buy a top quality computer, or the cheaper mid-range gear. However, I know that I'll be referring people to this article whenever I see or hear them say that Macs are so expensive
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You should really qualify the comment about running all three OS with the additional price (i.e. Windows license and Boot Camp, and a Linux distro). Interesting comparison, though.
Everyone talks about Apple have high prices, and I recently splashed out on an expensive MacBookPro. I hadn't a clue what the price of similar spec laptops were, then I noticed yesterday I noticed a new Fujitsu-Siemens' laptop. Pretty similar spec, and pretty similar price.
After using my MacBookPro for only a few days solid, I must say I'm extremely impressed, and wasn't sure what everyone was going on about - but now I totally get it. And so do my friends after playing with it for a few minutes!!!
Two weeks I surrendered my discriminatory ways and bought a mac; this after using non-mac since before, I believe Faruk, you were born. It wasn't entirely voluntary however, as I needed a mac test bed for a new project. In these 2 weeks the mac has become my everyday machine rather than being used just for testing as I had planned.
It is not just the price that is comparatively favourable. After I had plucked up the courage to switch it on I found that it is the ease of use, the intuitive interfaces, the right things happenning at the right time, that just keep me smiling. Though never having used a mac and slightly nervous, within 5 minutes of switching on I was updated and on the internet and within 8 minutes had my POP mails working and all set up, the network just happened. I am totally converted, unfortunatley I will need to still use Windows for my new project.
Now it appears to me that the mac v windows arguments are like those of web standards; use to appreciate. But getting any more than a minority on board is really hard work.
Although I do agree on most things said here, and not wanting to be a party pooper, there is a price difference on other bits and bobs that probably cause the "myth" that Apple is more expensive, and that can't be deemed as "lower end".
This comparison for example:
http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=2400
(I found it when I was shopping around for monitors last year, and I did check current prices to see if they had changed, but difference were pretty much on par with each other still)
That is two monitors with the same panel, but with a noticeable price difference. Most Mac users I know don't mind paying the extra money for getting a monitor that also looks fantastic though. I'm not that fussy though, and rather spend that extra cash on other things. ;)
Matthew: true, that's an extra $100-$200 (depending on which you get) on the MacBook Pro.
Trovster and Alan: welcome to the world of Mac. :-)
Mathias: I think it was ArsTechnica or C|NET that did a full comparison of the Dell 30" and the Apple 30" Cinema HD Display. The Dell was a few hundred cheaper, but the Apple display won the overall comparison due to better image quality - even though they use the same LG panels; Apple just does its calibration a ton better than Dell.
You should mention at the end that this is on Newsvine, too.
Another reason to get rid of the Newsvine/Digg/delicious bookmark tools you've got.
Faruk, This is an interesting article but I could have helped you find a better deal on the Dell site. For instance, I just emailed you a configuration for a 2GHz Duo/100GB 15.4" Inspiron 6400 system with all the specs you provide above -- priced at $2191. The 15.4" Inspiron offers the same native resolution (1680x1050) as the MacBook Pro 17" - for 20% less - and it's lighter 6.1 vs 6.8lbs.
Now we can argue the relative merits of whether or not resolution and screensize -- but we really are comparing apples and oranges. Apple has never been nor does it want to be a price leader. There is no status in buying a Mont Blanc pen if it costs the same as a Parker.
I respect the Macintosh faithful -- my first computer and my second computer were Macs -- and when they say that the Mac is "better" I believe them. It's "better for them." Some folks seem to think if I could just understand the merits and benefits behind OSX and fully appreciate the quality workmanship and brilliance in industrial design behind the product, I could not help but realize how wrong I am in continuing to use the computer I now use. To those folks I say: Yes, I understand all of that and I am happy where I am at. Please folks: they're just computers.
Carl, you may think of them as "just computers", but don't forget that for most of us, they are the most important part of our every day life. Our computers let us do our job, relax, manage our lifestyle (photos, music, video) and more.
"Just" computers? As Johhny would say it:
Your configuration URLs only go to the base models, but I'm guessing you added software in there to make the Dells more expensive...when alternatives are available for free.
Plus, getting $750 off the Dells is very easy. Head on over to FatWallet or SlickDeals for some coupons.
There is no myth...Macs are just more expensive.
I'd take the MacBook Pro over a Dell anyday.
So would I, but they're not the same price. That's all I'm saying.
Nice article. I think the article is very clear that the Dell models are configured to most closely reflect the standard options built-in the MacBook Pro, where possible. I, personally, think the lack of Firewire and Firewire800 on PCs is a complete joke. Firewire is SO superior to USB 2.0 for sustained data transfer as to be laughable and adding it to most PC laptops is impossible or at least very expensive. Not to mention MacOS is head-and-shoulders above Windows. The fact that Apple makes the ONLY computers that are capable of running all three major OSs in the marketplace today (Windows, MacOS, and Linux) on one computer, approved by the manufacturer, is a huge advantage. Without all the other numberous advantages that a Macintosh provides, that alone would be worth paying more for a MacBook Pro... the fact that you don't have to is just gravy.
Faruk, the last thing I would want to do is to snuff someone's candle. And, it's wonderful and admirable when a company's products inspire passionate users. Both companies mentioned in your article have produced passionate users.
However the topic at hand -- the "myth" you wish to dispel -- at least from my cursory investigation remains unsubstantiated.
I've produced a pretty close example of a Dell notebook that is smaller, lighter, and $600 less expensive. This is even more remarkable since your comparison required that the Dell be equipped with the top-end leading-edge features. Dell (and other PC OEMs) always place a surcharge or premium on the fastest processors, graphics chips, and highest-end LCDs. The price differential only increases if I were allowed to downsize my options a bit -- something I find notable and admirable as a consumer but you seem to dismiss in favor of "Apple keep[ing] things simple."
I sincerely hope no candles suffered a near-snuff calamity because of my comments. I'm trying to remain as objective as a former Dell Portables Software Engineer can be.
But Faruk, C'mon... If your computer is "the most important part of [your] every day life" then you need to get out more. :-) I think I have a book at home called "The Bay Area and Weekend Suggestions For The Next Five Years." Half Dome awaits!
Haha, Carl, sorry, I didn't mean to offend, it's simply a quote from Finding Neverland that I'm always reminded of when someone uses "just" :-)
Anyway, the comparison in my article is about equal hardware because I keep hearing this argument: and quite obviously, that simply isn't true.
Is it a matter of coincidence that Apple only offers the premium hardware and that Dell tends to overprice the premium stuff? Maybe, but that's what the argument is about: equal hardware being much cheaper when bought from Dell.
For the 17" laptops, it's simply not so, unless you have heavy rebate offers (which only happen in the USA, anyway).
The thing is, that cheaper laptop you found is made of much lesser hardware - cpu, memory, video, hard drive are all inferior - so obviously it'll be cheaper. But that's not really much of a point here. The issue is equal hardware, because it's not a comparison if you take completely different hardware and then look at the price difference. Saying you can get a laptop for $999 means nothing, because it's not the same hardware.
People are saying that Apple is expensive because they can get "the same thing" from Dell for much less. This article pretty clearly points out that you can not get "the same thing" for less. You can get less for less, sure, but not the same thing.
And yes, it's not the most important part of one's life, but they're still important. We spend the largest part of our waking hours behind a computer screen, not because we love them so much or because we're crazy people, but because it's what we do. Computers are important, to me, to you, to everyone who reads this. :)
There's something else to remember here, shipping.
Last time I priced out a mid-range Dell they tacked on $100 for shipping and handling. Maybe this is not true for the high end models, but I suspect it is. Apple offers free shipping on any order of $50 or more, and they also have brick and mortar stores throughout the US.
There are many other value-adding items to consider that fall under a category of Product Utility, such a customer service, where Apple has a lead.
I went through this exercise almost a year ago and ended up plumbing for a 2GHz Dell Inspiron 6000 running XP Pro. When compared with a 15" G4 PowerBook it came in just over half the price of the Apple (in New Zealand). The thing with Dell is that if you're prepared to bide your time they have some very good "limited time" offers (I paid NZ$2600 for a NZ$3500 unit). Apple do not appear to discount.
Although I would have loved to go with the Apple the fact was the price premium was too great at the time. Bear in mind that the Dell boasted a higher resolution display (1680x1050), a PCI-express 128MB Radeon X300 graphics card and 100GB 7200rpm HDD (versus Apple's 1280 x 854, Radeon 9700 and 80GB 5400rpm unit).
If the MacBook Pro has changed this dramatically I would be very surprised, given the NZ retail price is NZ$4959 for the 2GHz, 15.4" model and Dell's prices have dropped in the meantime.
However, having said all that, if I was buying today I would go for the MacBook Pro for mostly aesthetic and emotional reasons.
I got $2652 for the Dell E1705 with the superior Nvidia 7800 video card - all other specs are the same. Windows MCE is the more comparable OS, as this includes FrontRow functionality. No tax and free shipping on the Dell.
Apple has the 10% student discount, but that's not available to most people.
The only thing missing is the webcam, which 95% of people have no use for.
People keep saying that the iSight is "useless for 95% of the people" - but it was one of the most desired new features of the MacBook Pro, and it was the one that got the biggest cheers of joy when it was revealed.
Mac users have perfectly good use for the iSight: iChat AV puts any videoconferencing software on PC to shame, and it's really useful and fun. Just because PC users aren't familiar with having a good use to a webcam doesn't mean webcams are useless.
Dells keep getting gradually cheaper, while Macs generally stay at the same price until a new model is introduced 6 months later. This means that Macs automatically look "well priced" at their introduction and "bad deals" just before a new model comes out. Since the new Mac laptop is just out a few days, it's no wonder it's cheaper than any Dell. You should compare them every month or so and calculate a median value to get a really fair picture.
Faruk, as you see, even with your "solid evidence" there appears to continue to be a debate. Since they are not the same machines, we will probably never find equal hardware.
For folks following along, I'll provide the spec sheet for the $2191 Inspiron 6400 that I called "pretty close" and Faurk called "made of much lesser hardware - cpu, memory, video, hard drive are all inferior."
..And send me a photo when you climb Half Dome, okay? :-)
Hah! I'm not sure why not being able to use OS X is a fault of Dells (anymore than being able to use XP is a benefit of MacBooks). Most of us saw the bootcamp benchmarks and how much slower OS X ran.
Real men use linux. :)
Carl, the thing you spec'd out:
- Has a 15.4 inch screen, not 17
- Has a slower HDD
- No gigabit ethernet
- Worse graphics card
Yes it is cheaper, but no, its not quite comparable to the MacBook 17.
Oh, don't forget the slower processor too.
The point of this article is that when everyone's paying a premium on new hardware, things can be about equal (with maybe Apple being ahead sometimes).
*Everyone* charges a lot of money for top-of-the-line gear, not just Apple. Where the "Apple is always more expensive" myth comes into play is that they typically don't use the cheaper components found in bargain computers.
Being able to run XP on a MacBook (and also Linux) is a big benefit, because it means the Mac is the only computer in the world that can (legally) run all three major operating systems.
With OS X being hailed by critics as "currently the best OS on the planet", it's definitely worth mentioning. You may be a linux guy, but most of the world still uses either Windows or OS X.
Also, I'd like to see those benchmarks you're talking about. The only ones I know that showed OS X to be slower were a lousy comparison done in a videogame by a webcomic guy. That's not benchmarking.
All other benchmarks I've seen pointed out that the MacBook Pros with Boot Camp run Windows faster than the PC laptops by Dell, Sony and HP.
I promised myself long ago that I wouldn't let myself get sucked into one of these silly arguments again but....
Faruk et al, I now present Exhibit B in my case. It is a $2244 Inspiron 9400 with the following specs: 2.16GHz 667MHz fsb Intel Core Duo Processor; XP Pro; 17in 1920x1200 native resolution LCD; 1GB DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz; 120GB 5400rpm SATA HDD; 8x CD/DVD Burner with double-layer DVD+R write capability; 256MB ATI Mobility Radeon x1400 Video; Integrated Bluetooth; Integrated Wireless 802.11g.
This is the same CPU, same RAM, same CD/DVD burner, all your required features and your XP Pro requirement, pretty close Video with same Video RAM, larger hard drive, superior LCD resolution and $555 in my pocket. Faruk, count me among your friends who would say "I can get get the same thing from Dell for much less." Based on my research, that continues to be the case.
Oh and please folks, don't harp on 7200rpm vs 5400rpm. Trust me, you'll never notice the one millisecond seek time differential. Personally, I prefer the 5400rpm hard drives -- they tend to be quieter.
Carl: ok, don't know how you got it to be that cheap; all I see that's less (other than the HD) is the battery and no separate XP disc (Macs always come with a complete dvd of OS X so you can always reinstall if you want / need to), but those amount to about $250, not $555. Hmm.
Honestly though, I do prefer 7200rpm, since I tend to do a lot of I/O-heavy stuff and I really do notice the difference.
But, I'll admit that on the hardware side, you've found one model configuration that is cheaper (but there's still the ones I found that are more expensive, so it's kinda both ways now).
Now, shall I start my discussion post about the software side? ;)
But does dell offer an inspiron with those specs that weighs a full pound less and is 0.6 inches thinner?
Or one with an integrated video camera and a breakaway "magsafe-type" power connector?
Or gigabit networking and FireWire 800?
How about optical digital input/audio line in and optical digital output/headphone?
Or a backlit keyboard and IR remote control?
The little extra things do start to add up after a while. While *you* might not see a need for these features you can't just assume that the extra cost isn't going somewhere.
Bring on exhibit C! :)
I agree with you Nick, as always the overheated discussion these guys are talking about "just" leads to nowhere.
Anyway, I delved into selecting Macbook pro 17" for development work (Mac/windows) since the introduction, but I have to say: the attitude of the salespersonnel towards XP installation and aftersales services is appalling. This "just" doesn't make sense. Apple promotes bootcamp, However on the salesfloor they have a stiff upper lip towards all things Microsoft.
Secondly, and this one is personal, don't you think faruk you are biased because of your current contract with Apple?
An interesting thing to note: Carl's cheaper notebook, "Exhibit B," was without VAT.
Geert, I don't have a current contract with Apple (but yes, I will in the near future), but I personally don't believe it makes me biased. I can see how others will believe I am, but quite honestly, I would've made this exact same post 5 months ago if Apple had released the MacBook Pro 17" at that time. 5 months ago, I wouldn't even have dreamed of working for Apple in the future.
I was then, and still am now, nothing more than a guy who has used every version of Windows since 3.1 for about 8 to 14 hours a day, who recently switched to Mac and who has been happy with his computer again for the first time since the days of MS DOS. Do I have a personal preference for Macs? Hell yes, but there's hardly anyone on this planet who has no preference for a certain OS at all.
My point is, no matter who you ask, everyone will have an OS preference. I feel that since I've used Windows very intensively for almost my entire life, bar the last 7 months, I can honestly say that despite my personal preference for Macs, I can make a balanced comparison between the two.
The upcoming Apple contract really has no influence here. If it did, I wouldn't have made the post at all - they don't really like their employees blogging about Apple stuff much, other than maybe the occasional announcement after the fact. In fact, I've revoked 4 posts on Apple (3 before even publishing) simply because they probably wouldn't have been appreciated by Apple (despite being in their favor).
Apart from Apple notebook/PC notebook hardware comparison, here are desktop comparison too. From the end of last year, Aopen, the Taiwan computer maker unveiled Mini PC - a PC copycat of Mac Mini.
http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS8464432110.html
Mini PC euipped with Celeron M or P-M processor. However, the price was surely higher than Mac Mini PPC. Today, its price is lower. But how you compare of it with Mac Mini Solo or Duo? I can only say Core Solo is more or less equivalent to P-M. But Mac Mini Solo do have better peripherals and pay less. Maybe Aopen will launch Mini PC revision b soon, but i don't think it will much cheaper than Mac Mini Solo/Duo with same configuration.
Mini PC in Hong Kong
http://www.centralfield.com/2004/home_pc/mini.html
Mac Mini in Apple Hong Kong
http://store.apple.com/800-908-988/WebObjects/hongkongstore.woa/wo/0.RSLID?mco=3274229B&nclm=macmini
To the somewhat anonymous Matt who remarked "Your configuration URLs only go to the base models, but I'm guessing you added software in there to make the Dells more expensive...when alternatives are available for free."
Open your eyes. The price changes are JavaScript-powered; once you start upping the hard- and software to match that of the MacBook Pro's, it does top the price. Don't be a flamer, dude.
As someone considering an Apple for their next computer this is an interesting read. Is there a UK price/performance comparison anywhere out there anyone could recommend?
After viewing the US sites for Dell and Apple, I have to agree with Faruk that Macs are not overpriced, IN THE US. In other countries, however, it is a different story.
For example, I live in New Zealand and the 17" MacBook Pro is NZ$5899, or the equivalent of US$3717 at current exchange rates. Where does the extra US$1000 come from? I can tell you that Dell NZ does not add this kind of markup.
to Jared: I am living in New Zealand as well. Do you know why the price difference is so great here? Apple computer do not have a direct shop in NZ. Only one company has monoloised the sells of mac here (you can find out from apple.co.nz). Have you noticed that here Vodafone and telecom changes much more than other countries? I basic thought almost every thing here are much more expensive than other counties..... :-)
When you start moving to 4 year warranties that include accident coverage, international coverage, and a dedicated 24/7 support number/chat the XPS line gives you a fair amount of computer for the money. Time it right with a not so secret coupon and its ~$3500 including a 4 year warranty w/accident coverage and the 512MB 7900GTX video card.
One year ago, I picked up the 17" XPS Gen2 for under $3K and it has firewire etc. I imagine a better price could be found now for similar spec, but it wouldnt be the same processor. The MAIN difference though would be that the Dell is upgradable... they are designed that way. You can buy from Dell spare parts dept. This means if you purchased a laptop a year ago, the NEW video card can be added. Ditto for some of the processors - just wait for prices to drop! :) The XPS line is INTENDED to be upgradable by the customer.
The 9400 has firewire too so Im not sure where the myth about "no firewire" started or why it even matters that much.
I just priced a Inspiron E1705, that granted I used Media Center version, with all the specs listed in this review BUT with the following exceptions came in at $2358.20 (it has firewire btw)
I added: 256MB 7800 Go video
I added: 100GB 7200 RPM drive
I added: UXGA screen with True life (wasnt specified in review)
I added: Sound Blaster Audigy HD audio (internal)
I added: carrying case - the mac will have one
I added: 4 year warranty that included the accidental drop/spill coverage
A similar PowerBook, but with less warranty (no accidental breakage coverage?) comes in at $3148. They might haggle or have some promo I dont know about so if we take off saaay $300 its: $2848
What the Dell didnt have that would be cool is the backlit KB, magnetic power plug, and camera.
I still like the style of the Mac better.
Comparing APPLE MACBOOK to dell? man think about what you're doin'! It's like comparing a BMW to hyundai.
You wanna see the difference? do a hardware benchmark, don't do price or...
Hardware benchmark? Now that Macs run on Intel chips the hardware is literally the same - Core Duo Processor, DDR2 RAM, etc....
The only difference in quality between a Mac and a Dell is that Macs run a higher quality operating system (in my opinion!!). This post, however, is about price, and based on the findings from my previous post there's no denying Apple adds A LOT of markup
Until you can get the same video card in a Mac the HW cant really be compared from a benchmark pov.
The Macs generally come with the highest end videocards available…
In fact, I couldn't even equip any of the Dells with the best card; instead, I had to take a slightly lesser card for them than the MacBook Pro has.
The ATI x1600 graphics card (256mb) is the "3rd best" card available from ATI at the moment, and is very similar to a Nvidia 7800 Go (256mb).
For THE TOP laptop (which is clearly what a 17" macbook pro holds itself out as), I would perhaps expect a x1800 or x1800XT.
Faruk, I was wondering if you had an opinion on the prices of Macs internationally? As I said before, in the US prices seem to be fair, but in countries such as NZ (my beloved home!) a 17" Macbook Pro is the equivalent of US$3717. I did more research and found that in Australia the price is US$3560, while in the UK, the price is US$3731. I understand that Apple has to make a profit, but adding US$1000 on international products almost seems scandalous!
Jared, you'll find that most electronics are more expensive on the islands. Apple does tend to stick out more than the others, though, but again, on the islands...
I just purchased an e1705 with the exact specs you mention, but with a 2.0 rather than the 2.13 cpu, for 1300 US dollars. Are you actually using the coupons or just going to Dell's site? A 30 second web search will show you the discounts which are always in effect. Just let the others do the hard work figuring out the min/max price points on the deal sites.
I just bought the Inspiron for 1,067.00 with free shipping without any coupons and that's with 100 gig of memory and 1G of ram. I'm a graphics designer and needed something to replace my desktop. I haven't had crashing problems with PC's in the last five or more years so I think that the systems are more stable these days. I have worked on both Mac and PC but still prefer the functionality of the touchpad, accessiblity to files, and mouse functions on pcs. Being a designer I require more of my machine than the average user so I needed something that would get the job done and the main fact is that I can't get a 17" Mac anywhere near that price. I don't need to add in all the unnecessary things into the pc to make it come out to 3000, which is what everybody seems do to make it seem equal. I just wish Mac would give you options to buy something for 1000.
oh yes and google maps doesn't work on an apple. that's a HUGE minus. ;)
Google Maps works just fine on a Mac o_O
Also, I'd be interested in hearing what you consider to be unnecessary things, because there's just about nothing on the MacBook Pro that I don't need, as a graphcis designer and programmer. In other words, I really do need all of it.
Just noticed a related article on OSNews.com (a good site to visit or subscribe to, by the way): Apple and Dell: Business Models.
0) You try to get a Mac on Dell's website. Think different, and now try to do it the other way.
1) Apple is very expensive. And this is because they often tend to create price categories out of marketing bullshit, when there is no technical meaning.
2) One ALWAYS get a discount from DELL, unless he's a complete dummy. (Call them, or pick up a dicount one the website)
3) You can get the three years warranty from Dell for free if you call them, now look at the price of Apple's extension... Dell after sale is just fine, Apple's is worse.
4) I've had tons of PC, and tons of Mac (Because of family), and I hate Macs. The hardware was crap (for old notebooks, now it's like PCs), and the OS takes for granted that you're brainless and especially don't want to configure ANYTHING.
Yet I hate windows too, and for my family it's mac only, I don't want to spend my WE scanning their HD for virus.
But these comparisons sucks, it's immature and oriented.
I think that Mac succeeded to create an aura around their products. Sometimes for a good reason, most of the time, because it looks cool on your lap beside the Starbucks latte or in your German engineered car. Dell on the other hand is the Toyota or Honda of computers. Not a lot of pretensions, but none the less they have changed the computer landscape. Operating systems have also a huge impact in this debate, but that is not Dell's fault….and not the scope of the debate. Since the use of dual core more Apple type software runs better (faster) on Windows than on Apple at least for now.
I work in 3D design for a lot of years always on Dell workstations (company policy) and starting a couple of years our department is also using Macs (for digital cinema).
Right now I am using an M90 with all the goodies and I can only see the "technical" differences between this and the MacBook. The artistic impression has no value in my book, as I am just an engineer who happens to drive a "Toyota appliance" product.
- M90 runs a lot quieter and cooler. It is amazing how hot (and sometime annoyingly noise) runs the Mac. So from my point of view unless you have a thermal blanket no real lap usage is recommended. If I remember correctly it was not Dell that came with a computer case that developed thermal cracks in the casing for the sake of looking cool.
- Better battery life and with more power gadgets too (1.8 pounds extra also unfortunately)
- A lot more powerful. 512M video ram and 4G memory on a laptop…
- Higher resolution display (a must for this class)
- I can run Linux (more and more lately)
- Lets not talk about reliability…I think there is enough proof out there
This is just my 5 cents and they are Canadian ones to…
Umm... I sell notebooks (not macs) in Australia, and while I do like macs, and I don't think they're particularly overpriced, but the idea that they are less expensive than regular PC brands certainly seems wrong to me... look.
I just did basically the same thing you did, compared a Apple and a Dell and also a HP.
You know what the specs of the 17" mbp is...
2.16 core duo, I spec'd it to 2x512mb ram, since that made it cheaper..., 120gb 5400rpm sata, 256mb x1600, 17" 1650x1080, wifi/bluetooth etc...
All for $2,799 US. (I would have used $AU since I'm from Australia, but the Dell online store was down...)
From Dell...
Inspiron E1705
2.16 core duo, 2x512mb ram, 120gb 5400rpm sata hdd, 17" 1650x1080, nVidia GF7900 GS 256mb, wifi/bluetooth etc...
and from HP...
dv8000t
2.16 core duo, 2x512mb ram, 120gb 5400rpm sata hdd, 17" 1650x1080, nVidia GF7600 256mb, wifi/bluetooth...
The Prices?
Apple $2,799
Dell $2,199
HP $1,713
How do you explain that?
(Also of note is that you can get a similar turion